I'm sexist

[AuntiePam]

Because I don't buy that the female commentators on the sports networks know anything more than the average fan (if that) about the sports they're commenting on. They're hired for their looks, and because they can enunciate.

Michele Tafoya and the women who go out on the field -- they know a little bit.
But the others? All scripted.

Am I wrong?

[Despotic Harridan]

Hahaha, I read it as "sculpted"

[Random Precision]

To be fair, looks and enunciation is all they really need to be on TV and read from a teleprompter.

And they may have sports knowledge too, but it's not a requirement for the job.

[Panacea]

Outside of some of the male sportscasters who used to play - do any of the men know any more?

I do know a LOT of women who follow sports religiously and can tell you all kinds of stats and strategy things about players and teams.

I am not one of them.

[Little Nemo]

Originally Posted by NinetyWt

Outside of some of the male sportscasters who used to play - do any of the men know any more?

Even the ones who are former players; how many of them really know more than a non-player?

Consider Troy Aikman, for example. He hasn't played in thirteen years. There's only a handful of players who he played that are still active and you have to figure even they were playing very differently back in the nineties. So he can't offer much in the way of personal insights on current players based on his playing experience. What Aikman bases his commentary on is watching film and doing interviews, which is available to any commentator.

[FartBeard]

Originally Posted by AuntiePam

Because I don't buy that the female commentators on the sports networks know anything more than the average fan (if that) about the sports they're commenting on. They're hired for their looks, and because they can enunciate.

Michele Tafoya and the women who go out on the field -- they know a little bit.
But the others? All scripted.

Am I wrong?

What female commentators are you talking about? The only female who does play by play is Doris Burke and I don't know ANY who do color commentary, unless it's for women's college basketball or the WNBA and they are all former college/WNBA players.

Suzy Kolber has been reporting on the NFL for ESPN for close to 25 years.

[Pere]

Originally Posted by NinetyWt

Outside of some of the male sportscasters who used to play - do any of the men know any more?

I do know a LOT of women who follow sports religiously and can tell you all kinds of stats and strategy things about players and teams.

I have noticed that women sports columnists are IMO clearly better than their average male counterparts. Of course there are fewer of them, and presumably they have had to distinguish themselves to a greater degree to get the jobs.

[NoClueBoy]

Some of the guys on national NFL shows and games need to be shot with an un-dumb gun.


As for you being sexist... How YOU doin?

[AuntiePam]

Originally Posted by FartBeard

What female commentators are you talking about? The only female who does play by play is Doris Burke and I don't know ANY who do color commentary, unless it's for women's college basketball or the WNBA and they are all former college/WNBA players.

Suzy Kolber has been reporting on the NFL for ESPN for close to 25 years.

I'm not talking about the play-by-play people, but the female talking heads on ESPN and the NFL network, the ones who spend all their time in the studio.

The sexist part is because it's hard for me to believe that a woman who looks like a fashion model has in-depth knowledge of male-dominated sports.

[The Superhero]

Originally Posted by AuntiePam

I'm not talking about the play-by-play people, but the female talking heads on ESPN and the NFL network, the ones who spend all their time in the studio.

The sexist part is because it's hard for me to believe that a woman who looks like a fashion model has in-depth knowledge of male-dominated sports.

Yep, assuming women are too stupid to do a job because they're attractive is pretty sexist, alright.

[AuntiePam]

Originally Posted by The Superhero

Yep, assuming women are too stupid to do a job because they're attractive is pretty sexist, alright.

I don't assume attractive women are stupid, just that they're stupid about male-dominated sports.

I have no problem accepting beautiful women as scientists, engineers, astronauts, etc. But there are no educational programs where people learn about the intricacies of sport, unless they're a participant.

I don't know why I'm defending myself, since I started out by saying it's sexist of me.

[Panacea]

It's pretty cool of you to acknowledge this disconnect, actually.

Originally Posted by AuntiePam

I have no problem accepting beautiful women as scientists, engineers, astronauts, etc. But there are no educational programs where people learn about the intricacies of sport, unless they're a participant.

Well then, do the male sportscasters who never played suffer from the same level of stupid?

I think you are running into a pre-programmed thing in your mind. Just like how my son told me when he was five years old that girls can't drive trucks. It's a pre-conceived notion with little basis in reality.

Any person can study and learn of the intricacies of a sport, whether they play it or not. A person who played can have intimate knowledge of the application of the game principles, but they don't have a lock on the understanding of the fine points.

Wouldn't an educational program include Physical Education at University? Women receive P.E. degrees too.

[Harry]

Sports are not complicated. You see the ball, you hit the ball. You throw the ball, you catch the ball. Anyone can learn to announce a game or commentate on it. Before he got into broadcasting, Howard Cosell was an attorney. The advantage female broadcasters have is that they are usually more articulate than some jock that's been hit in the head too many times. Looks are a plus, so in that sense, AuntiePam is correct when she calls herself a sexist. The thing is, I don't know anyone who watches something like SportsCenter because of the level of attractiveness of the women on it. For my money, Fox has the best studio program...at least for football...because all of the panel do their homework and know what they're talking about. I've never seen a woman on the panel. If the women in the studio programs need to have any talent besides their looks, it would be the ability to read, write and ask intelligent questions of others on the program, whether panel members or current players.

[AuntiePam]

Originally Posted by NinetyWt

Well then, do the male sportscasters who never played suffer from the same level of stupid?

My husband thinks so. Hell, he thinks many of the coaches don't know the game.

I'm talking mostly about football. I can easily accept a woman commenting on basketball and other games that women play. Football is where I have an issue.

[AuntiePam]

Originally Posted by Harry

The thing is, I don't know anyone who watches something like SportsCenter because of the level of attractiveness of the women on it.

But it doesn't hurt either.

If the choice was a homely woman who knows the sport and a beauty who can read the teleprompter, we know who they'd hire.

[mlerose]

Originally Posted by AuntiePam

But it doesn't hurt either.

If the choice was a homely woman who knows the sport and a beauty who can read the teleprompter, we know who they'd hire.

But why would a woman's attractiveness have anything to do with how knowledgeable she is about football? I'm not seeing the connection here. I find it really unlikely that a sports commentary program or channel would hire a woman who didn't know what she was talking about, just to parrot what the teleprompter says and look pretty.

[Jaglavak]

Originally Posted by Little Nemo

Consider Troy Aikman, for example. He hasn't played in thirteen years. There's only a handful of players who he played that are still active and you have to figure even they were playing very differently back in the nineties. So he can't offer much in the way of personal insights on current players based on his playing experience. What Aikman bases his commentary on is watching film and doing interviews, which is available to any commentator.

Are you fucking serious? Let's put it this way; if you were standing in the pocket with the ball in your hand, waddaya do? And I mean right now. Boom, you're a postage stamp.

Football takes a tremendous amount of memorization, situational awareness, and rapid pattern recognition. Rule changes or no, Aikman has been there and knows what is going on under those helmets.

Regarding the OP, I am a hopeless sexist too. I always assume the women are reading strictly off a teleprompter.

[AuntiePam]

Originally Posted by mlerose

But why would a woman's attractiveness have anything to do with how knowledgeable she is about football?

It doesn't. It's not that she's attractive, it's that she's a woman. Women don't play football, so unless she's from a football family or married to a player, she won't be as knowledgeable as most men.

I'm just digging myself a hole, aren't I? Men can be just as dumb about sports as women.

This thread came about after watching a hot blonde on the NFL network, and thinking that she's only there because she's hot, and that means I'm sexist.

[mlerose]

Originally Posted by AuntiePam

It doesn't. It's not that she's attractive, it's that she's a woman. Women don't play football, so unless she's from a football family or married to a player, she won't be as knowledgeable as most men.

Men don't give birth to babies, so only female OB/GYNs or midwives can possibly understand the process of gestation and childbirth. Right?

How do you know this woman didn't play football? Some women play in elementary/middle/high school. How do you know football isn't what she's devoted her life and career to understanding? How do you know football isn't her lifelong passion? Sure, IN GENERAL women probably know less about football (particularly what it's like to play football) than men do, but again, I highly doubt that they're hiring women to look pretty and read from a teleprompter. People don't watch sports commentary shows for the eye candy.

[AuntiePam]

Originally Posted by mlerose

Men don't give birth to babies, so only female OB/GYNs or midwives can possibly understand the process of gestation and childbirth. Right?

Not the same, although a female OB/GYN/midwife who's been pregnant and given birth will have a slightly better understanding of stuff that isn't learned from a textbook. (I almost said they'd "have a leg up".)

How do you know this woman didn't play football?

The particular one I'm talking about is heavily pregnant and might weigh 130 pounds. She'd need an anchor in a stiff wind.

How do you know football isn't what she's devoted her life and career to understanding? How do you know football isn't her lifelong passion?

Her comments didn't reflect anything original, nothing off the cuff.

Sure, IN GENERAL women probably know less about football (particularly what it's like to play football) than men do, but again, I highly doubt that they're hiring women to look pretty and read from a teleprompter. People don't watch sports commentary shows for the eye candy.

They don't watch for the eye candy, but IMHO the women are there for diversity. If you're a TV network and want to avoid accusations of discrimination, you'll hire a few women, and women who look good on TV will be the first choice.

[Pere]

I'm pretty sure Erin Andrews' core job is eye candy.

[Random Precision]

If you were a TV executive looking to hire a female sports commentator, you're going to get applicants who (probably) majored in Broadcast Journalism in college. Some of them may well have specialized in sports broadcasting, but all of them will be able to look good on camera. Not because broadcast journalism schools are especially sexist, but because hot women tend to select broadcast journalism because they look good on camera.

There are absolutely exceptions to this. Many women are interested in journalism as a career because they are bright and inquisitive and good at ferretting out a story and getting people to talk to them. But the ones who are not terribly interested in makeup and fashion or who might be considered average or plain looking generally won't take the broadcast courses. They may even be somewhat contemptuous of the ones who do. They may eventually wind up in a broadcast position because of their level of expertise and because the money is good, but it's probably not where they started out. Again, there are going to be exceptions.

So back to your Sports Center exec looking for a female on-air commentator. The pool of applicants to choose from tends to be heavily over-represented by attractive women. I'm sure they try to choose the ones who have the most knowledge of sports, but being as the executives are generally men, they do sometimes pick a person who is much easier to look at than to listen to.

[Lungfish]

Here in the UK we have Hazel Irvine and Clare Balding who know their shit.

[Panacea]

Originally Posted by AuntiePam

Women don't play football, so unless she's from a football family or married to a player, she won't be as knowledgeable as most men.

This is illogical. You are acting as if the only way to be knowledgeable about football is to play it. Did you never hear of studying?

Here in the SEC, I assure you, there are thousands of female football fans who know the sport inside and out. And probably played football with their brothers and male friends. Football is king here, and most people understand it well.
(Not me, because I'm a nerd and don't give a shit about it).

[Random Precision]

That's a good point. Girls who date football players tend to pick up quite a bit, not to mention girls who date sports fanatics. Neither of my very attractive daughters are particularly sports minded, but by association with their boyfriends and now husband, one of them is an expert on the NFL and the other one is very knowledgeable about European Soccer. And I promise they got none of it from me - fellow nerd, here.

[Little Nemo]

Originally Posted by Jaglavak

Are you fucking serious? Let's put it this way; if you were standing in the pocket with the ball in your hand, waddaya do? And I mean right now. Boom, you're a postage stamp.

Football takes a tremendous amount of memorization, situational awareness, and rapid pattern recognition. Rule changes or no, Aikman has been there and knows what is going on under those helmets.

Regarding the OP, I am a hopeless sexist too. I always assume the women are reading strictly off a teleprompter.

Are you confused about the topic of this thread? The rest of us are discussing being a commentator not being a player.

And, yes, I think somebody can learn the game and have insightful comments to make about a game without ever having played in the NFL.

Howard Cosell, Brent Musburger, Al Michaels, Jim Nantz, Curt Menefee, and Joe Buck are examples of well-known sports broadcasters who never played in professional sports.

[AuntiePam]

Originally Posted by NinetyWt

This is illogical. You are acting as if the only way to be knowledgeable about football is to play it. Did you never hear of studying?

Here in the SEC, I assure you, there are thousands of female football fans who know the sport inside and out. And probably played football with their brothers and male friends. Football is king here, and most people understand it well.
(Not me, because I'm a nerd and don't give a shit about it).

That's what I thought I said. If she's from a football family or married to (or dating) a player, she's going to be more knowledgeable. Except I said it backwards, starting with the negative..

[Wolf Larsen]

My working assumption is that nobody on tv knows what they are talking about. Sometimes I am pleasantly surprised.

[Panacea]

Originally Posted by AuntiePam

That's what I thought I said. If she's from a football family or married to (or dating) a player, she's going to be more knowledgeable. Except I said it backwards, starting with the negative..

Okay, well, I'm having difficulty reconciling that with "no woman knows anything about football." If you acknowledge that many women *do* know quite a bit about football, then your original premise falls apart.

You mentioned to mlerose that her analogy was "not the same" but I don't see how. Humans are capable of learning things, even things they aren't interested in.

[AuntiePam]

Originally Posted by NinetyWt

Okay, well, I'm having difficulty reconciling that with "no woman knows anything about football." If you acknowledge that many women *do* know quite a bit about football, then your original premise falls apart.

Yes, it does.

Many women do know football. They're just not on TV.

[Solfy]

I believe there are women who are very knowledgeable about football. But when I see them commentating while dolled up to the nines on the sidelines, I'm inclined to assume they're eye candy until proven otherwise. Yes, I shouldn't jump to that conclusion, but I do. Because that's what tv, and televised sports especially, does - puts people there to look at, not to listen to.

[JoanieBaloney]

I always want to know where they bought their coat.

[Mustard Stain]

Gigi Salmon is one of the best ball-by-ball announcers out there and when I'm watching tennis on I turn down the sound on the TV and listen to her coverage via internet radio instead. IIRC, Salmon also is a broadcaster with ChelseaTV (soccer programming) and really knows her shit.

[Anacanapuna]

I have two DILs who were high school and college athletes. Neither ever played a single down of football. Both are strikingly beautiful. Both are in fantasy football leagues with their husbands (my sons) and both consistently score much better than their husbands (my wife's sons) every week. Both are just as astute at watching a play develop as their husbands, and a helluvalot more football savvy than I am. Either of them could sit in for Terry Bradshaw or Shannon Sharpe and be fluent in the sport.

Yes, good-looking people tend to be more successful than the rest of us. Such is life.

[AuntiePam]

Consider me edumacated.

My DIL could write a book on baseball, and probably football too, but I've only ever heard her talk about football. And softball, come to think of it.

But can we agree that the pregnant blonde chick on the NFL network is most likely reading from a teleprompter?